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Rules
Mar 31, 2014 17:43:19 GMT
Post by Admin on Mar 31, 2014 17:43:19 GMT
It is amazing how many people don't read the rules when they go to a track they haven't been to. For that matter even the rules at the track they run at all the time. Speaking of rules let's talk about what rules would keep the costs down so that more cars are competitive.
Just some things to throw out there. Right rear tire rule? How about a 600 max lift rule, Flat Tappet or Roller legal? No shock that cost more then $150? With some cars having shocks that cost $800 Each. This rule would really help.
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Rules
Apr 2, 2014 14:10:27 GMT
Post by trackpro01 on Apr 2, 2014 14:10:27 GMT
going to any roller cam just increases cost and widens the gulf between the big buck racers and the low buck. lift and duration and spring pressures are now limited by the physical limitations of running a flat tappet. MRP has gone to an ascs right rear and the 16" tire is tightening up the field and getting great wear....paul
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Rules
Apr 2, 2014 17:45:37 GMT
Post by Admin on Apr 2, 2014 17:45:37 GMT
My point on the flat tappet or roller cam. For the last 4 years my lift was 665 with a flat tappet. Spring pressure was 480 open and 190 closed. The cam lives about 12 to 15 races. We have done everything we can to make it live. By having a lift rule of about 600 it then makes no real difference if it's flat tappet or roller. A lot of people think a roller cam somehow gives a big HP increase. With the same lift it's not going to. I do see your point on the 16" RR, however you are the only track doing it which I feel hurts your car count.
The last few years I haven't been able to go to all the tracks like I used to, which I really enjoyed doing. If I wanted to show up at your track I would have to buy two right rear wheels and tires. Not going to happen at a cost of about $1500. The other concern I would have is the Cubic inch where some cars are running a 9/16 motor, while not a real big advantage it is none the less an advantage. The best tire rule there has ever been in this class was the MC 3. It's a hard tire and will still work good after 10 races and you didn't need a different wheel. I don't know what they cost today. The last time I bought one it was $160. A Hoosier RR is about $250 and will not last very long.
I do believe one of the best ways to help keep the cost down and make it more competitive is a rule on the shocks where they have to be a standard oil shock. I know a set of 4 standard style shocks is about $500, steel shocks are even a little less. Some of the fancy shocks are now over $2000 for a set of 4. That's something the average racing cannot afford and should not be allowed in this class.
Maybe one of these days I will write up a complete set of rules for this class that makes sense and helps keep the cost down so that more people will come out. When this class stated in 99 the car I had was an old Dulu that weighed 1850 I had a motor that was 12.5 compression with a 550 cam and was as fast as anyone else. The motor from air filter to pan and headers an mufflers was $8500.
I see people complain about the weight all the time. What the heck why don't we just allow 410 motors with a 4bbl carb 1200 lbs cars. What needs to happen is all and I mean all the promoters need to get together and work on a set of rules the make sense for the racers so more cars are competitive, by keeping the cost down. As well as making it easier for the racers to go to different tracks. I know some promoters always try to do things that increase the car count at their track without considering what happens at other tracks. The promoters need to step back and consider what's best for the class first.
In 2007 there where over 185 Spec Sprints in northern cal. 95% of them had run somewhere that year. Today I would guess there are less the 90 out there and I'll bet less then 60 of them will run somewhere. If the cost are not held in check this class is going to die.
Shortly I will post the differences in the rules of all the tracks so the races know. I can tell you walking through the pits at least 40% of the cars do not pass two obvious safety rules. I would like to see someone answer what they are. The winner, they get to know how to make their car safer at very little cost.
Keith
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Rules
Apr 3, 2014 13:36:29 GMT
Post by trackpro21 on Apr 3, 2014 13:36:29 GMT
I still run 2 spec sprints with a couple of rookie drivers so I am acutely aware of cost. I run speedway motors $130.00 cams exclusively and change them every second freshening with no problem. The ASCS tire came from an agreement between promoters to go to this tire that they were pressured into backing out of by racer complaints. If you look at our weekly car counts you will see that thetire change made no difference, however the racing got closer with less cost to the MRP regular. Its all moot anyway as this is my last year promoting. after this year I can sit back and whine too....paul
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Rules
Apr 3, 2014 22:06:58 GMT
Post by jack41 on Apr 3, 2014 22:06:58 GMT
I like the roller cam deal that antioch does with the lift limit mostly because of the longevity of the cam and zero chance of wiping a lobe on breakin. With no limit on lift ( flat tappet or roller ) there will always be those that would spend the time and money to go big even if it only lasted a few races. Ive run these cars since 1994 and I like the rules package for the most part.
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Rules
Apr 5, 2014 16:32:15 GMT
Post by Admin on Apr 5, 2014 16:32:15 GMT
The main point I'm trying to make is how much the cost has gone up, not counting inflation. I do believe there are some areas where changing the rules will help keep the cost down as well as make it more competitive. As far as the roller cam issue, my point in that, at a modest lift there is not hp advantage in a roller vs flat tappet. The cam I ran the first year in this class is still running in a spec sprint. For that matter I"m still using the same block I had in 99, it's been bored out a couple of times.
Paul I was not picking on you or your track. Just pointing out some differences in rules. I have heard that this will be your last year, which I hate to see you leaving as I know you have made some great upgrades to the track. And I know you have one of the better payouts to the drivers.
As far as the differences in rules most of them are minor however if you are not aware of them you can be disqualified. A few years ago I know a driver that ran at a track (not naming the track) he won the main and was DQ. I talked with him and he was very mad about it. What it comes down to is read the rules. Some of the most simple rules can ruin you night.
Jack41 I agree with you for the most part. The lift rule at Antioch is fine except it is a max lift of .655 which basically means if you run a flat tappet it's going to wear out really quick. That's why I stated that it should be a max lift of .600 then it makes no differences and the flat tappet with live. I do like the fact that Antioch allows the roller cams I just think it's a big mistake to go that big on lift.
I would like to hear from anyone that is running with shocks that cost over $175 each as to why they spend that kind of money? Do you really think it's that big of an advantage?
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Rules
May 5, 2014 15:44:59 GMT
Post by Admin on May 5, 2014 15:44:59 GMT
How about talking about the cars at all the tracks that don't meet the safety rules. The most obvious one is the lack of roll bar padding. It just amazes me how a car with no padding can get past staging without an official seeing it. I have seen this at every track I have been to. This is simply a track that is not doing due diligence in keeping the dumb drivers safe. anyone including me are dumb drivers for even getting in a race car. My main point here is if the car owners and drivers know the rules when a car with out padding wins and your protest them it doesn't have to be a protest about the engine or tires, you can protest the car as not safe and should not have been on the track. Now maybe some of you out there will read the rules and pay attention to what you read. The fact is the track always has an out on safety as the rules always state it's the drivers and car owners responsibility to make sure the car meets all the rules. Just one added thing a number of years ago I went end over end from turn 2 clear to turn 3 passing 2 cars in the air and when I landed except for the seat and motor plates nothing else was still attached. I had roll bar padding everywhere and some how my head hit the frame. Here's what people don't know, seat belts can stretch 3". Now here's the really scary thing the body from your butt to your head can stretch 8". That means someone that is 5'8" would be 6'4". That also means if your head is 4" below the top of the cage you head is now 4" above it. Keith
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Rules
Jun 24, 2014 18:06:18 GMT
Post by Admin on Jun 24, 2014 18:06:18 GMT
Something I wrote a few years ago about this class. Nothing has changed.
If you look at the rules at Petaluma, Marysville, Chico, Placerville, Chowchilla, Watsonville and Orland they are all real close to the original rules written by Don O’Keefe and Don Martin back in 1998. The first year this class ran was 1999 at Antioch.
There has been a lot of talk about changing the rules by some people. Some want the rules changed to suit there needs and not for the class as a whole. Some want the rules changed for safety with good intent to reduce injuries.
On the issue of lowering the weight for safety, while it is true reducing it will decrease the impact some, it will also increases the speed some. That would most likely be a wash for the safety aspect. Assuming reducing weight would make them safer how do we do that with out adding cost? My car, a 2007 XXX with all steel everything, and my weight of 158 plus two batteries and starter with no fuel weighs 1700 lbs. So the only way to do it is to allow light weight parts. Then the costs to field a car goes up. The one thing people are forgetting is these are races cars, people are going to get hurt. If you look at the amount of drivers and amount of laps run the injury rate is very low.
So, what can we do to make these cars safer? Make a halo mandatory on all cars. I would just like to add one thing to that and require at least 4” clearance from the bottom of the halo to the top of the driver’s helmet. Most people do not realize from the waist up the human body can stretch up to 8” as well as the seat belts can stretch up to 3”. On the issue you full containment seats, some drivers seem to think if that have one, they don’t need to wear their belts as tight. I’ll visit you in the hospital.
On the starter issue, let’s see what is good about it. The car doesn’t have to be pushed down the street to get it started when you need to run the engine. At the track it provides for a quicker show, and the track doesn’t need all those push trucks.
On the down side sometimes a car can’t self start and has to start at the back of the field. I have been running in this class since the first year 1999. I run a standard Chevrolet starter on 24 Volts and have very few problems. The starter last about two seasons. I see a lot of cars with these $250 starters having problems. Maybe it has something to do with to old adage the “kiss” principle “keep it simple stupid”
The main thing on changing the rules is to not kill the class. In 1986 at Baylands the 360 winged injected class was just starting, does anyone out there know what the rules were then? Cast block, Aluminum heads, flat tappet cam, 2 3/16” injectors, top wing only. Where are they now? Did the changes made reduce the cost or increase it? Where is the class now and would it be better off if the rules had not been changed?
My opinion on the rules, require the halo with 4” clearance. To help decrease the cost and increase the competition have a maximum lift of about 570 at the valve. Very easy to check. My lift now is well over 650. This would also help to slow the cars a bit (for safety).
There are well over 100 Spec Sprints. How many 410’s and 360’s? This is by far the fastest growing class. Why change something that is growing faster than any other class? The car count was down this year, only do to the economy. When things pick up this class will continuo to grow.
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Rules
Dec 16, 2014 17:57:08 GMT
Post by Admin on Dec 16, 2014 17:57:08 GMT
This is what's happening. From John Prentice >
Starters will remain maditory on all cars for 2015.. Petaluma, Marysville, Chico will follow suite..
Hoosier htw tire will be mandatory ( think all ran just wasn't in rules )
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