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Post by Admin on Apr 17, 2014 17:20:27 GMT
Back in the 70's the cost to get into the Pits was almost nothing. I would love to see a complete breakdown of what it takes to run a track and what the profit is. With all the divisions that now run at the tracks for no purse, it is nothing but pure profit from those divisions. I started racing at Antioch and at that time there was only two divisions and somehow the promoter made money. The promoter back then was John Soares Sr. I mean when was the last time Elvis had to pay for his own concert?
Some of the tracks are getting good at getting sponsors for the races which help the purse. But it still doesn't explain why it cost so much to get in and why the purse is so low for the spec sprints. Spec Sprint racing is as good as any other sprint car division. One of the best things about it from the spectators view point, you can actually see the driver and what their doing in the car. With the wings on top your view is blocked.
I will bet that I get no good response from any promoters. If I do it will not be complete. Here's hoping I'm wrong.
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Post by Admin on Apr 22, 2014 15:49:18 GMT
The following is from Rick Faeth Petaluma Speed Way
Response to operating costs for a race track.
Back in the 70's the cost to get into the Pits was almost nothing.
Back in the 70's (and yes I was around then) pit passes were $15 to $20, through the 80's they graduated to $25 (Baylands was $25) through the early 2000's $30 and now well into the second decade of the 21st century the member rate is $40. Given inflation from the 70's to 2014 the price has doubled whereas inflation on other items has grown on orders of magnitude. Movie theater tickets went from $1 to $10. Gas went from $0.85 to $4. Houses went from $70k to $500k. So the true fact is doubling inflation from $20 to $40 for pit fees over the course of 40 years is way below the national average for goods and services.
Would love to see a complete breakdown of what it takes to run a track and what the profit is.
Tough to give you a breakdown on profits since there is none. Example (typical week April 19):
Last Saturday Night purse for five divisions $13,305.
Lease payment to Sonoma-Marin Fair $1,500
Insurance $1,500 (Liability PA, ADD)
Workers Comp $335
Advertising (radio) $650
Security $550
Ambulance $500
Labor $3,000 (does not include me or my wife)
Diesel & Gas for Equipment, Water Truck, Tow Trucks, Tractors $400
Sysco (cost of food) $4,180
Garbage $495
25% of all concession gross sales goes to Sonoma-Marin Fair $1,850
So for me to open the doors and operate the track it cost me $26,845.
This doesn't include various other costs such as utilities (water, power, gas, propane)
Or general mechanical upkeep costs which are significant when utilizing 30 to 40 year old equipment.
Or licenses ABC, Sonoma County Health Dept (per concession stand), Petaluma City Business License, Petaluma FD Permit.
These licenses were in excess of $2,500 and that was before we opened the doors.
With all the divisions that now run at the tracks for no purse, it is nothing but pure profit from those divisions.
Petaluma Speedway has "no" classes that run for "no" purse. Guaranteed Purse Payouts for Petaluma Speedway:
Winged 360 $7,000
Spec Sprint $4,700
Hunt Series Race $5,475
Mods $3,000
Super Stocks $1,500
Dwarf $1,400
Mini Stocks $250
Rick Faeth
Petaluma Speedway
(408) 499-6845
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deb
New Member
Posts: 5 
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Post by deb on Apr 26, 2014 19:52:16 GMT
Wow! Thanks, Rick for a very informative answer. So refreshing to see a promoter's response.
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Post by 1oldphart on Apr 29, 2014 13:12:32 GMT
I agree with rick, there are no classes that race for no purse and the back gate is always 2-4thousand short of the purse. fixed overhead is over $8000.00 per nite. if you think the specs are a draw, ask your promoter to run them last. see whois in the stands. 13 to 18 spec's cannot carry any show and must support the winged cars. the hunts fat purse was supposed to make for big fields. didn't happen. its a money loser every time they run....paul
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Post by Admin on Apr 30, 2014 14:46:23 GMT
Paul, if they are not bringing any fans into the stands and they are a money loser then why do you bother? Seems to me a smart business man would get rid of them if that were true.
Keith
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Post by 1oldphart on May 1, 2014 13:56:03 GMT
nobody ever said I was smart. We all keep hoping that the economy will return enough to improve car counts. the cars are out there the guys just can't afford to run them. with the non compete agreements with the civil war we really need a second headliner to take over when the wings are dark. spec's just haven't done that....paul
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Post by Admin on May 1, 2014 20:14:01 GMT
Same question, then why do you run them?
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Post by 1oldphart on May 6, 2014 3:30:59 GMT
gotta run something, 4 classes, 60 cars. 4 hrs of entertainment. be it specs, super stocks, mini stocks, hobbie stocks or whatever the winged cars are the headliners. we all hope that the other classes will build a following so far at our track only the superstocks have done so. Maybe at Petaluma the spec's have great car counts and agreat following in the stands but I doubt it. even the hunt shows aren't filling the fields and that is at a 360 purse.....paul
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Post by Admin on May 6, 2014 17:41:47 GMT
Paul,
Do you know who is going to take over the track for next year? Regarding Petaluma, I think with the new muffler mandate they are going to loose about 5 to 6 cars in the specs. They will either go to Antioch or Marysville depending on where they live. I have heard threw the grapevine that Antioch is not going to those mufflers.
Keith
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Post by Admin on May 9, 2014 16:57:26 GMT
Paul,
Where is everyone getting the spec tire you run from? And what is the cost of it.
Keith
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Post by 1 oldphart on May 12, 2014 21:11:35 GMT
most are using ASCS take offs or WOO take offs. Also all USAC sprinters are on that tire. I got 10 or so at swap meets this winter and didn't pay over $20.00 for one. new they are $200.00 from your friendly local hoosier dealer. there are a couple of qualified prospects to take the track but nothing I can put out at this time...paul
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Post by Admin on May 15, 2014 16:41:22 GMT
Does that mean you have some for sale? What qualifys someone?
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Post by 44D on Dec 31, 2014 9:12:16 GMT
From 1999: It costs $25 to get in the pits, a right rear cost $135, fuel for the truck cost $2/gal, racecar fuel about $2.25/gal, etc
Today: It costs north of $45 to get in the pits, a right rear is $240, fuel for the truck (was,thanks OPEC) almost $4/gal, racecar fuel is north of $4/gal, etc
To start the feature in '99 you got $100, and today you get $100 to start the feature. We won't even talk about how much more the cars cost in 15 years. ( I think it would be fair to say that they cost 50% more now then they did then)
For myself, my wages haven't kept pace with the increase in costs. I don't clam to have all the answers, however I think the reality is that there are a number of cars sitting in the shop because it has gotten distorted in the cost vs purse ratio. I think for many of us, the purse money is the money that is used to keep us operating is each week. So you are left with race less or not at all. Let's be clear here, I'm not talking about making a living from racing (I think we can all agree we are not going to make a living doing this), I'm talking about narrowing the gap of what it costs (out of pocket) to race each week.
Just so I don't sound like I am just bitchin'- could it be reasonable to lower the top of the purse, to increase some of the bottom of the purse? The top four probably made money that night, are they really going to tow 50 to 100 miles to another race track because the top four pays $50 less each.
Heat race money? Could heats be sponsored to cover the cost? Cash is king, however fuel,oil,parts, etc would not hurt. (For those guys that don't use that "fill in the blank" product, trade it for something you want or you probably didn't need the help anyway.) I'm talking about ways that would make it healthier for 14 to 18 cars to be there as compared to 10 to 14.
It would seem to me that if you are getting 10 cars a night, four or five cars more a night would make a difference in the show for the fans. Let's face it, a ten car feature looks like a big heat race. Getting that guy that can only race once a month to race twice a month would be a positive move. There is an old saying; if you can get 50% of the people to do 25% more you will have made progress.
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Post by Admin on Dec 31, 2014 16:51:22 GMT
Glad to see someone voice their opinion. I had considered posting something along the lines of what you just said. I think it kind of makes a person wonder where all the money goes. I did appreciate Rick responding to what I had written, he did not give the bottom line. All he did was list what the cost to open the gate were, not how much money was made after the gates closed. I was right about one thing there would be no promoter that would give a complete break down. Rick did say there was no profit, however he did not say what he and his wife make. I'm sure after they get payed there is not profit. I do think anyone that is promoting a track has one heck of a difficult job. Besides having to get sponsors for the races, they also have to deal with all the different personalities of the racers. No easy task. They need to prep the track, and they do need to make a living doing it. Some promoters are tight with a buck some realize you have to give a little to receive. As far as the purse issue, I'm pretty sure you are going to see a purse this year that has less money at the top and more at the bottom. I don't know where you race, but Antioch was paying $125 to start this year, Petaluma was paying $150, Marysville was paying $100, Hunt Series was $130. I would guess you where racing Marysville. I'm not trying to defend the promoters, just clarifying the info that is out there. So what does it really cost the average racer to get to the gate? Cost to buy a used spec sprint complete in good shape and competitive with trailer and spares $15000 About $12000 is for the car. If the car lasts for 3 years then it cost $4000 per year. Most tracks run 12 races per year. The cost of the car per race is $333 Average pit crew 3 x 45 = $135 Fuel to get there 15 Gal. x $3 = $45 Fuel for race car 15 Gal. x $4 = $60 Repairs,parts, tires = $250 Cost to get to the gate Total = $823 Best payout = $150 Loss = $673 I know there is more that could be added. This is the main reason the car count is not real good. Another reason is the economy taking a tank. This is the low cost sprint car class which means the lower dollar racers. In 2006 there were over 180 spec sprints that ran that year. That was also the first year of the open show at Chico, which had 82 spec sprints in the pits for the two day show. Going to be a while before that happens again. I don't know about you, but for me that is a big cost to go racing. If you want to you can send me an email. It is on www.specsprint.com under the contact page. Keith |
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